tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476621888383604834.post7664421577671552346..comments2024-02-15T03:26:38.897-05:00Comments on Health Care Organizational Ethics: The Wall Street Journal Weighs In about St. Joseph's HospitalJim Sabinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03087828142188534542noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476621888383604834.post-91553036904413299112011-01-09T08:42:47.326-05:002011-01-09T08:42:47.326-05:00Hello Lori -
Thank you for the kind words!
If yo...Hello Lori -<br /><br />Thank you for the kind words!<br /><br />If you are the Lori Freedman at UCSF you will see that a post that will go onto the blog tomorrow refers to your article "When There’s a Heartbeat: Miscarriage Management in Catholic-Owned Hospitals." I admire and have learned from the work you and your colleagues do. Thank you for it!<br /><br />Re the Lysaught analysis, I believe that it will ultimately be posted on the Catholic Healthcare West website.<br /><br />Best<br /><br />JimJim Sabinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03087828142188534542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476621888383604834.post-62557095476881665732011-01-09T00:39:31.163-05:002011-01-09T00:39:31.163-05:00What a revelation to find your blog! I look forwar...What a revelation to find your blog! I look forward to reading Lysaught's analysis and more of yours. Lori FreedmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476621888383604834.post-29679472079822311522011-01-03T08:22:24.083-05:002011-01-03T08:22:24.083-05:00Hello Thomas -
Thank you for your thoughtful comm...Hello Thomas -<br /><br />Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You raise important points. I'll address them sequentially:<br /><br />(1): I'm sure that you're correct about media "shopping." I also know that first hand - I'm often contacted about "ethical cost containment," a topic I've written a lot about. But the op ed author's comment about "theological vover" presupposes (a) that Professor Lysaught was sought out in a duplicitous manner to provide a predetermined conclusion and (b) that her analysis was wrong. Unless she has evidence about the correctness of (a) I'll persist in seeing her words as unearned rhetorical gestures.<br /><br />(2) I rely on Professor Lysaught's detailed analysis of the medical facts for my assertion that the mother was indeed in the process of dying. Apparently the St. Joseph's medical record (of course I haven't seen the record itself, nor have I had any contact with any of the care team) makes it clear that the patient was in a worsening state of cardiogenic shock. Members of the care team made several notes saying that risk of death was close to 100%. My term "in the process of dying" isn't a precise phrase, since "dying" isn't a state with a precise moment of onset. But my inference is that caregivers at the bedside might well have said to each other "this poor woman is dying."<br /><br />(3) Bishop Olmsted concludes that the D&C was an "illicit abortion." Professor Lysaught's theological analysis, which draws on a wide range of church teachings, concludes otherwise. Have you had a chance to read her analysis? I found it persuasive. <br /><br />(4) I don't think "claim vs concluded" is "Clintonesque." Given that the op ed author has demeaned the analysis as "theological cover," to my ear calling Professor Lysaught's conclusion a "claim" has the ring of how we describe the protestations of guilty parties to innocence.<br /><br />I'm on shaky grounds with regards to the nuances of the Magesterium. My understanding is that the Bishop is entitled to speak for it and to present his conclusion as "true," not simply a "claim." But as I've said in my posts, my guess is that for those who accept the description of the medical facts, the image of standing by while the patient died, either predeceased by death of the fetus or followed by it, will simply not make moral sense to many observant Catholics. (I haven't seen any surveys on this, but that's how friends I've spoken to have reacted to the Bishop's position.)<br /><br />Again, thank you for your comments!<br /><br />Best<br /><br />JimJim Sabinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03087828142188534542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476621888383604834.post-89568053302952280032011-01-02T16:40:50.432-05:002011-01-02T16:40:50.432-05:00Dear Jim,Points: (1)The media does shop for theolo...Dear Jim,Points: (1)The media does shop for theologians: they pick one whose views do not conform to the teaching of the Magesterium.I have experienced this many times especially in relation to abortion.There is one Magesterium in the Catholic church and Catholics are morally bound to follow its teaching, but we retain the freedom of will to do as we please,with consequences .The church is not going to change its teaching to fill the pews. Remember Pope John Paul's quote : "Ut unum sint".<br />(2) The mother was not in the process of dying and the act of killing is much different than dying.She had severe pulmonary hypertension.(3) "Illicit abortion": this was direct killing of the fetus.(4)"Claim vs. concluded" seems clintonesque while "seen in the light of Prof. Lysaght's analysis" is an acceptable phrase!<br />Sincerely,<br />Thomas Warner, M.D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com